When we invent a new technology we become cannibals. We eat ourselves alive since these new technologies are merely extensions of ourselves. The new environment shaped by technology is a cannibalisitc one that eats people. To survive one must study the habits of cannibals- Marshall McLuhan

There are some things in life that we protect ourselves from by not wanting to think about them. In some cases a certain phenomena might not even get a definitive name.

I have no wish to nauseate anyone unnecessarily, so now’s your last chance to bail out before we draw a pattern, and then, to my mind at least, put a real name on it.


starting with Professor Pan

Louis Lamonica walked into the sheriff’s department in tiny Livingston, La., and asked to speak with a detective. According to police, for almost the next two hours the middle-aged preacher, proceeded to tell a story so sickening they could scarcely believe what they were hearing. He explained that he was the former pastor of Hosanna Church, a now defunct house of worship in nearby Ponchatoula. Matter-of-factly and without remorse, Lamonica said that he and other church members had molested children, and taught them to have sex with each other, as well as with a dog. He told the detectives that he drank cat blood, and poured it on the bodies of his young victims…
When he had finished talking, Lamonica was arrested by the stunned detectives, who charged him with two counts of aggravated rape of a child under 13 and a charge of crime against nature. According to police, Lamonica was confused by the cops’ reaction. “He was somewhat shocked when he found out we were going to arrest him,”

leading to the lion’s share from Rigorous Intuition

In the 1980s, a man named Lawrence King launched a credit union in Omaha and quickly became one of the most prominent black Republicans in America. He sang the national anthem at two Republican National Conventions. He was a friend of powerful state and national figures, including billionaire Warren Buffett (Buffett hosted the King’s 10th anniversary party and sat on the board of Franklin’s parent company) and then-Vice President George Herbert Walker Bush.King also happened to be an abusive paedophile, who ran an adolescent sex ring out of his office that enjoyed the protection of US security and intelligence apparatus, which exploited children lured from the neighbouring Boys’ Town as both a honeytrap to blackmail vulnerable parties and as a reward for faithful assets.
and ( scroll down a little )

BRITAIN:Alleged Pedophiles Helm Blair’s War Room Counterpunch January 29, 2003A child-sex scandal that threatened to destroy Tony Blair’s government last week has been mysteriously squashed and wiped off the front pages of British newspapers. Operation Ore, the United Kingdom’s most thorough and comprehensive police investigation of crimes against children, seems to have uncovered more than is politically acceptable at the highest reaches of the British elite. In the 19th of January edition of The Sunday Herald, Neil Mackay sensationally reported that senior members of Tony Blair’s government were being investigated for paedophilia and the “enjoyment” of child-sex pornography:

“The Sunday Herald has also had confirmed by a very senior source in British intelligence that at least one high-profile former Labour Cabinet minister is among Operation Ore suspects. The Sunday Herald has been given the politician’s name but, for legal reasons, can not identify the person.

“There are still unconfirmed rumours that another senior Labour politician is among the suspects. The intelligence officer said that a ‘rolling’ Cabinet committee had been set up to work out how to deal with the potentially ruinous fall-out for both Tony Blair and the government if arrests occur.”

The Blair government has responded by imposing a comprehensive blackout on the story, effectively removing it from the domain of public discussion. Attempts on the part of this journalist to establish why the British media has not followed up on the revelations have met with a wall of silence. Editors and journalists of The Times, The Daily Telegraph, The Guardian, The Independent, The Sunday Times, The Observer, The Sunday Telegraph, The Daily Mail, The Daily Express, The Mirror, The Sun, the BBC, Independent Television News and even The Sunday Herald have refused to discuss the matter.

Call to lift veil of secrecy over Dunblane The GuardianFebruary 14, 2003Campaigners yesterday called for a review of the 100-year secrecy rule imposed on some documents seen by the inquiry into the Dunblane killings which were never made public.

The move comes after the Scottish cabinet this week instructed Scotland’s most senior law officer to look again at the 100-year ban placed on a police report on Thomas Hamilton, who murdered 16 primary schoolchildren and their teacher.

There have been allegations that the lengthy closure order was placed on the report after it linked Hamilton to figures in the Scottish establishment, including two senior politicians and a lawyer.

There has been much speculation about the identity of the politicians in the report. It is known that in June 1996 Michael Forsyth, then Scottish secretary and MP for Stirling, congratulated Hamilton on running a boys’ club in Dunblane.
BELGIUM:Ritual abuse, pedophilia, murder, and the charge of a government cover-up The Telegraph August 17, 2001Five years after the bodies of four murdered Belgian girls were discovered at houses owned by the paedophile Marc Dutroux, the father of one of them has accused the country’s police and justice system of a cover-up ensuring that his trial has still not begun.

The claims by Paul Marchal, father of An Marchal, who was 17 when she disappeared in 1995, echo what many Belgians now privately believe: that Dutroux and his paedophile ring had connections with high-ranking members of the establishment in Belgium.

In a country that is becoming inured to corruption in public life, the theory of a cover-up is now increasingly accepted as the real reason why the Dutroux case has yet to come to court.


PORTUGALPortugal rocked by child sex scandal
Allegations that a child sex ring has been operating out of state-run children’s homes in Portugal for decades has prompted intervention by President Jorge Sampaio.

BBC May 29, 2003The developments sparked an outcry in Portugal, particularly when it was reported that a former president and several government ministers, as well as the police, knew of the allegations as far back as the early 1980s but failed to take action.

“Faced with the horror that so many children, who were entrusted to us to be educated and cared for, were victimised it is necessary to declare here that the president is certain that the guilty will be severely punished,” President Sampaio said in a speech.

The latest high-profile arrests are of men publicly accused of sex abuse by former children of Casa Pia, Portugal’s largest network of homes for troubled children.

Casa Pia first made the headlines following allegations that an employee at the institution allegedly helped wealthy child molesters to meet young boys in his care for over two decades.


Chilean elites caught in child porn ring Boston Globe Jan 12 2004VALPARAISO, Chile — Congresswoman Maria Pia Guzman is a strait-laced conservative who has suddenly and unexpectedly become an outcast at the Congress building here. Sometimes her follow legislators murmur an insult when she comes within earshot: “Witch!”

Guzman did not unleash the sex scandal now rocking Chile’s political and social elite, a sordid tale centered around a millionaire businessman and some runaway teenagers.

But she did publicly link a handful of congressmen and senators to the case, suggesting some of her own political allies might be involved in an alleged ring of prostitution and child pornography. And for that, some of her fellow legislators will not forgive her.

When she gets in an elevator with other congressmen, they often step out. “There is a very strong psychological warfare going on,” Guzman said in an interview in her Valparaiso office. Lighting a cigarette, she added: “Before this case, I had stopped smoking.”


MEXICOMob In Mexico Burns Two Federal Agents Alive

AP November 24, 2004MEXICO CITY — A crowd angry about recent child kidnappings cornered plainclothes federal agents taking photos of students at a school on Mexico City’s outskirts and burned the officers alive, the latest example of mob justice in a country beset by corrupt police and high crime.

The violence began in the early evening, when locals collared three men staking out a school in the San Juan Ixtlayopan neighborhood. The area has been tense since two youngsters disappeared and were feared kidnapped from the school. Some in the crowd appeared to believe the agents were kidnappers. When asked about complaints that authorities had failed to respond to demands to investigate the disappearances, Figueroa said a full schedule had prohibited federal authorities from concentrating on the case.


I truly could go on and on, but I’ll spare your stomach. Rigorous Intuition is more than adequate if you care to gorge yourself on this kind of thing. We just want to establish a pattern, here.

It is not so much dealing with evil actions, but rather patterns of evil action, and deciphering what those patterns might mean. It’s hard to argue that there is an epidemic of systematic child abuse going on, seemingly protected by those in power, but what could it possibly mean that such a thing exists? Surely it’s too outrageous and senseless a thing to be so widespread. Similarly, why on earth would the ruling elites and ostensible spiritual leaders of our civilisation seemingly abandon any commitment whatsoever to the principles and ideals of our culture?

Leaving aside for the moment the questions of what those principles and ideals might be, it’s easy to see that they, whatever they were, have been largely or wholly replaced with consumption and self gratification, from the top on down.

And this is the difficulty. To reconcile the facts with what, as a person, you know to be true of human nature. I cannot believe there is some top-down global conspiracy coordinating all the mass torture, mass rape, mass ritual, mass deception, culminating in the bankruptcy of our whole civilisation. It’s impossible. But it’s happening. So how then? Does this stuff just spring up of it’s own accord like fungus, like serial killers, and garden variety child molesters? Maybe, but you’re left with the pattern. The pattern doesn’t go away. the fingerprint of design.

It’s hard enough to convince people to get their mouths around the words ‘ritual abuse’, which is too bad, because that’s the best name going so far for this kind of thing, and that just doesn’t cover it. What kind of ritual? To what end? Of whose authorship? It’s practically indisputable that these acts are the glue holding something much larger together. So, what then?

In attempting to untangle this, you can go deductive and attempt to extract the parts from the whole, or you can be inductive and extract the whole from a part. And in this case that works, as long as you pick the right part, the characteristic part, the part that crystallises the whole thing.

And by that, I mean the children. The children are the quintessential symbol of the whole dynamic. What does it say about our society that it’s hidden shadow is the abandoned child, the abused child, the ignorant and fearful child, the child turned into a piece of meat for consumption. What it looks like is being done, is to gut the very structure of our civilisation, tear up the social fabric, incinerate any philosophical and moral capital and turn it all into a machine that runs on blackmail, corruption and the wholesale consumption of the young. What does it really mean to destroy the very moral and ethical foundations of your own society? What lies at the heart of the mass destruction of children for the sake of momentary power?

You know what it sounds like to me? What I finally had to arrive at is that it sounds like a plan to cannibalise the future. It sounds like the madness of those who have forsaken everything but the present moment in their search for gratification, up to and including the devouring of the very manifestation of our own future, the children.

But why? Why do that? Of all things, why engage in something so bestial, so depraved, so utterly self destructive? Who in their right mind would consciously act this out?

And there’s the answer: there’s nothing conscious about it.

When man is overwhelmed by information, he resorts to myth.-Marshall McLuhan

I’ve talked elsewhere about how people respond to change in different ways. In many cases people fear change, even hate it. And when that change takes the form of increasing complexity, many people would gladly shut it all out, and resort to simplistic shorthands.

Which is unavoidable to an extent. Not everyone can be expected to make learning and adaptation the foci of their life. But what happens when change becomes the norm? What happens when the environment becomes so saturated with information that very few people could ever handle it all, or even a significant amount of it?

But here’s the point, because you don’t need to understand everything around you, but you do need to understand your own self. And in an age of super-saturated dataspaces, the last thing most people want to do is introspect. Which is not only tragic, but perhaps, ultimately, fatal to us all.

As I said, many of these people check out. Emotionally, mentally and even spiritually. And if you’re not trying to understand the world as it is, then really, you’re living in a story. A myth. It is the finn cycle again. The same time-worn themes, over and over. If you choose to sleep then life is a dream.

‘So, what are you saying zac? that we’re living in a dream? Some kind of fucked up myth? what kind of myth is this, then?’

I’m glad you asked. But you may not be glad I told you…

Saturn is the earlier, roman, name for the god which you probably would have heard of as chronos. Both of them are known for enacting the same mythical pattern: they castrate and supplant their fathers, the representation of the past, as it were, and more significanty for our purpose, to stem any possibility that he might be supplanted in turn, Saturn litteraly devours his children.

It’s a very timeworn idea; that the existing order would engage in whole scale genocide against the future, out of fear of being overturned. Even if such a thing dooms you in the doing of it in any case. There is no hope of orderly succession, only catastophic collapse. Such a power can only devour those around it, and itself, to feed the delusion of immortality. It’s a kind of psychotic futility to be sure.

What I’m proposing in essence, is that because of the onrush of change in the last century, there was at first a paranoid backlash against progress, which took the form of authoritarianism and fascism, and eventually into a kind consumptive lunacy that built itself on looting the future outright as a way of propping up the failing oligarchy that cannot face the onrush of history.

This environment of rapid change which we’re all familar with, breeds the kind of retreat into irrationality, myth, and unconscious resonance that makes it’s victims perfect vehicles for the kind of deeply rooted themes in our species memory that Saturn represents.

To put it as succincly as possible: when people check out, they don’t wander aimlessly. Something else steps in. This explains why you see so much complexity, such rich malevolent patterning, in a pack of neurotics, teetering heart patients, hollowed out souless spooks, drug addicts, psychotics, self loathing homosexuals, and traumatised borderline autistics. It’s not them drawing the pattern. It’s something deep inside all of us. All they’ve done is open the way for that old old design to come forth in a new context.

It’s like a flock of birds, or any other complex emergent behavior. No one element contains the whole pattern, but each instinctively knows where to position themselves within it. It’s only when you have a massively interconnected global information space that you can even take a high enough vantage point to see what the whole pattern might be. Which is sort of ironic, because it’s things like the internet and the resultant backlash, that raised this phenomena to the pitch that it’s at.

The most grotesque and outrageous manifestions of this pattern are an example of what Jung called a constellation of the archetype. The archetype crystalises in a person or a group or a society and imbues it with intensely powerfull direction at the cost of abdicating free will. To abandon oneself to an archetypal role is to essentially beome a character in a play.

Is it not fitting then, that the twisted, hopelessly damaged scion of the incestuous, corruption riddled bush dynasty would consume the earth in a mad quest to overturn his father and ride at the head of a swarm of child-devouring, drug dealing, slave trading, warmongering future-destroying charicatures?

So what are the chances of calling anyone to account for this? Depends on who you’re looking at. The odds of bringing down the whole complex is viritually nill. By definition they don’t even understand what they are doing. There is no conspiracy as we would normally understand that word. They are the proxy actors in a certain kind of communal suicidal orgy.

It is we who fancy ourselves in the buisiness of consciousness that bear the weight in this. Not the sleeping masses, not the archetype haunted puppets at the top, who have all but abandoned their reason. But us. If anyone is to act it can only be from a place of understanding.

In a strange way, saturn can be seen as a kind of defence mechanism for the earth and for the human race as a whole. For a culture that has failed to take up the burden of facing the future and responsiblity for it’s actions. He is the self destruct routine when a bankrupt civilisation runs rampant.

If left unchecked a society that has lost sight of any values except excess and consumption, that has no real compass to navigate the future, would scour the earth down to bare rock and kill every last microbe before flinging itself into space to seek a new host. Better to plunge us back into the sleep of forgetting. ( incidentally, isn’t it interesting that much of this material revolves around memory loss, real or imagined? something for another time. ) A dark age to wipe the slate clean again. What state would we be in if rome had continued, for another thousand years, rather than destroy itself from the inside out?

We are at a grim crossroads. The very fact that saturn rules the world is almost certain proof that we have, or are very close to, failing the test. We have not become responsible enough, we have not become awake enough, we have lost ourselves to irrationality and abandoned our values. Our own collective mind is about to swing the sickle and cast us back into the finn cycle..again. We have, by and large, created no solutions to this, no alternatives, except, in small pockets, to return to our own past. Which is only the same failure, but at least a failure we have resigned ourselves to with dignity.

Neverthess, to march blithely back to the dark ages is still a resounding rebuke to our future and our own potentials, no matter how lovely and green it might be a hundred years from now.

This solves nothing. Absolutely nothing. In a thousand years or a hundred we would drag ourselves out of the dream and face the same problems all over again, until a big enough asteroid comes along and puts a period at the end of our sentence once and for all. No future for anyone. And no justice for the children.

Sooner or later we must face that everything changes, including the earth itself, and if we wish to endure, we must change with it. Anything else is madness. And right now we’re wallowing in it.


33 thoughts on “Dreaming Saturn

  1. Brilliant Zac! I wish I could find my Grave’s Greek Myths to find the follow up, but I do know that in the myth the children do escape (whether by the Saturn’s consort, their mother freeing them or simply by bursting thru, I can’t remember which) and displace the old fart anyway. There are a few other legends and fairy tales that depict the eaten as bursting back out of the stomach of the eater alive…possibly as the result of devouring the devourer from the inside out. You have given me a wonderful symbol to work with. Thank you, Juno

  2. I have thoughts on this, all incohate.

    Saturn is a rough bitch and not easily deposed. Cannabalism is a self-propagating error in the code of the universe, but the fact that we’re waking up enough to see the bug may be enough to re-write the code and avert doom.

    I am intimately familiar with the archetype of Chronos. His habit is to eat worlds. How many worlds must time eat? Can it be stopped? Or are we stuck for ever with the universe swallowing its own tail. Finnegan begin again, and again, indeed.

    embedded in the chaos, though, is an operating manual. With each new iteration we leave ourselves maps, keys.

    riverrunneth over

  3. This is, well, resonant if you will. I contacted the Chronos entity-archetype once (and only once) and it was, this, the child-rape and the cannibalism–all going on in my skull, not meat-space, mind you, but. As I try “to keep a secret” I have not shared that before, but it was well before I had stumbled onto Jeff Wells’ work. I don’t feel qualified to declaim that Chronos, or for that matter, Yog-Sothoth, another bump in one of my nights, has an objective existence. But I’m just saying, kids at home, you call up this shit and try for yourself. But it’s damn hard not to think so. It’s like Rene Gueron said, trying to build up the wall by tearing down the other makes it that much more likely some shit is going to walk right on through.

    I’ve been thinking, though, there *must* be a way to rehabilitate this negative archetype, to the extent it is negative. Or maybe not at all. Saturn has positive traits. He rules manifestation, and therefore restriction, and if we listen we learn how to work at our very limit and gradually expand that limit? It’s hard to talk in those terms and not run them in a negative way–linguists usually harbor a suspicion that there are about 150 ur-root concepts in the brain, so I imagine some combinations must be all-negative. Sorry, the thought is nascent here, but I’m trying to get that distant planet within my conscious, it was rising during my birth.

    It is we who fancy ourselves in the buisiness of consciousness that bear the weight in this.

    Well, I’ve got no idea what to do, although I’m trying to fix that. Recent discussions with my friends (“Why are you buying oil? Why are you buying silver?”) have sort of shown me just how short a game most people, even well-educated, intelligent ones play. Am I going to have to check back into the library and get back in the lab?

  4. trumpet on sister!

    and yes juno in the original myth zues’s mum fed chronos a stone in place of the baby god. then he grew up, pinched some thunderbolts from the cyclopes made a pact with some giants who had a hundred arms a piece and opened up a can of whup ass.

    it does make you wonder how it could ever really end. It makes me sad to see so many otherwise right thinking people imagining the solution to all this is to opt out of the fututre and return to the dark ages, or father back even. that’s exactly what the currents behind these puppets are pushing us towards. chronos and saturn were symbolic of the older horticultural civilisations, not the urbanised, literate greeks and romans themselves per se.

    which is neither here nor there, but retreating to a point immune to collapse isn’t really an adequate solution to the pathologies that create collapse. that’s like saying the solution to not being able to hold down a job is never leaving home.

  5. Saturn has positive traits. He rules manifestation, and therefore restriction

    Also, Saturn corresponds with Binah on the Tree of Life. Not sure what this means, but there’s prolly some serious work to be done with the harlot side of this archetype.

  6. retreating to a point immune to collapse isn’t really an adequate solution to the pathologies that create collapse.

    Word. I’m slowly coming to accept the only way out of this is through it. The anti-civ picture was really appealing to me for a while, but I want to keep my hot showers and global communications network, damn it. I see a mostly green future, localized and networked, with self-governing nodes peacefully linked along lines of trade and cultural exchange. How we get from here to there, though, is anybody’s guess. I guess that’s why “we in the business of consciousness” bear the weight of this. It’s a combination of the power of imagination with the power of persuasion that has its current zenith in advertising.

    Tim Boucher mentioned the futility of political alliances. Other alliances may be more fruitful, though… say artistic alliances. If we could insert our thought viruses into the culturemaking machine, good things might happen…. With the assumption, of course, that “our” thought viruses are worth a good goddamn.

  7. it’s a conundrum, alright. to me it’s all about having a healthy relationship to change, and impermanence. if you’re asking what the healthy side of the chronos archetype might be, it’s probably the healthy elder who knows their time has passed and lends the elder wisdom to their successors. or alternately the stubborn bitch who digs in until the kids are ready to step up and prove they can fend for themselves.

    i remember tim or mabe jeremy had a thing going for a awhile on rites of passage in story systems and the sickness that arises when you don’t have the transition in place in your culture.

    so maybe the problem is us, that we’re too spineless to stand up and topple the deranged old maniac who thinks he rules the universe. we’re too mired in irony, multiple perspective fragmentation and post modern wank to see plain as day when something needs to stop and just do it.

    the feeling you get from these myths and the ones similar to it, such as the sumerian where the gods topple their tyrant predecessors, is that they aren’t as tough as they seem to be. it’s just that all the other old gods are too shit-scared to do anything about it. like the alcholic dad who has the whole house walking on eggshells, and it takes the crazy desperate kid to topple the whole corrupt system and make a new one.

    these stories are all about the courage to defy tyranny. not bloody minded trench warfare unto eternity. as i’ve said before, these people and their ideas are played out. intellectually, morally, philosophically, spiritually, and now fiscally. utterly bankrupt.

    I’m starting to think it wouldn’t take much to smash the whole edifice.

  8. “And if you’re not trying to understand the world as it is, then really, you’re living in a story. A myth. It is the finn cycle again. The same time-worn themes, over and over. If you choose to sleep then life is a dream.”
    – Zacharius

    And if you are understanding the world, as it is, then really, you are living in a story. A myth. It is the finn cycle, again… The same time-worn themes…no need to be afraid of change…If you choose to sleep, then life is a dream….smoooooth sailing, have a marguerita, a juicy steak? Yum yum. Eat em all up.

    Or, if you want out… ARISE! And get UP. Get out of the world view and walk away. Else, see? you will be fighting, sword against sword, face to face, dead to dead. It is like a fire that eats, emotionally, mentally and even spiritually, fizzes, until there is no more to eat, then it eats it’s own self ‘UP’ into oblivion. Be gone Satan. Get behind. In the past. Go froward. Move it head. Where memories fade. [Just leave a memorial as a sign-post.LOL] And this memory never to return again, [except for a short time soon enough] to be done with, with such as this, this sickness has had ITself. Done.

  9. Thanks for reminding me of how the story ended, yeah, meet the new boss same as, etc. Tho it would be nice to keep the hot showers and computers for a change …{ darkly humourous mental picture of an internet addict gone insane, sitting in rubble trying to reboot a blank screen… or our electronic devices becoming the ‘cargo cult’ idols…or the suppressed history bugaboos… of the next civilization…you just know the plastic will hang on that long….}
    The edifice IS fragile and hollow…a manifestation of a ‘shell’ maybe?
    Take care, Juno

  10. I once had the inspiration for an art series called the “Age of Explosion” which embodies, to me, the “label” if you will, for the 20th C.

    I think the seeds for all kinds of explosions were planted, and many sprouted then, and more to come. Hopefully future ones will take a non-destructive form and “blow up” in the heart and conciousness.

    It’s interesting to note that an orthodox summation of Sodom and Gomorrah reads that the destruction of these cities was for wanton violence – a domination power trip utilizing a perverted sexuality against the innocent, and holy.

  11. But I wonder how this myth-cycle thing has to do with Joseph Campbell’s work. He came to the conclusion that one should look deeply in life for mythic resonance and align themselves with that, and sort of live out a great meaningful life-story with mythic reverberations. This is a characteristic of every figure we’ve taken a fascination with in human times — the worst and the best. I guess what I’m asking is: how can you escape the story, and should you?

    I always thought more along the lines of it being a non-linear pattern of emotiona/spiritual resonance/excitement that you try to recognize in every day life, and bring the mundane into the mythic/sacred.

    The fact that aligning yourself with this extremely potent perceptive quality is extremely dangerous and often has disasterous consequences makes it seem even more exciting… I don’t know; maybe I’m barking up the wrong tree. I’d like to see what you all think of this.

  12. Jacob says: How can you escape the ‘story’, and should you?

    I think one should do their best to improve themself, instead of stay sleeping in the consciousness.

    This morning, remembering out of my past a family who’s father molested his own children. Scene in my head, non-linear style, I asked the eldest son if he hated his dad for doing that. Answer came back, he didn’t hate him. Couldn’t hate him. Asked if perhaps he feared to show his true feelings, that he feared to hate him? The answer from him came no, he didn’t fear hating, he just didn’t hate him for it. He could sympathize with his father knowing he’s human and makes mistakes.

    So it is with love. It forgives, is longsuffering, has goodness and faith. Love is the key to changing the next generations way of life. To be like that child who can see past human error to love the being no matter what they have done. To forgive and be free. To not judge. To become as one mind with all life.

    About the killers of the human species, here’s an excerpt out of a book I’m reading: “It is not that you overuse the intellect as a culture, but that you rely upon it to the exclusion of ALL other faculties in your approach to life. The intellect is brilliant, but on its own, it is indeed in its way isolated both in time and is space in a way that other portions of the personality are not. When it is overly stressed, with all of the usual frameworks or rationales that go along with it, it can indeed become frightened, paranoid, because it cannot really perceive events until they have already occurred. It does not know what will happen tomorrow, and since it is overly stressed, its paranoid tendencies can only fear the worst.
    Now those tendencies are not natural to the intellect, but only appear when it is forced to operate in such an isolated fashion. Isolated not only in time and space, but psychologically isolated from other portions of the personality that are meant to bring it additional information that it does not possess, and a kind of magical support.” The Magical Approach by Jane Roberts.

  13. The search continues …
    My awakening came after I realized I needed more than sex, drugs & rocknroll, even when I was doing fine, thenkyewvedymuch.

    My hope came with a sense of a greater power that might help me out of it, and on to a noble path.

    My faith came with a core belief that this power would guide me into the truth (at least the truth of what it was I needed to be the real me, which I could not hope to learn alone), and that I would be spared from self-delusion. This was *the key*, since many who claim the truth are really filled with self-satisfying half-truths, and they deceive themselves.

    My love grew out of this … an affinity for our shared wretched condition, with the goal of improving the condition of our spirits.

    My path is still making sense of it all after 25 years, but it’s a start.

    Thanks to all you for making it interesting again! God speed

  14. part of mcluhan’s point was that there really is no freeing oneself from the mythic perspective, nor should you. it provides an existential context that lends life meaning. he, like joyce, suggested freedom came in experiencing multiple perspectives simulatanously and consciously, toggling between them at will when appropriate. simply flipping to another side of some imaginary dualism only aggrivates the problem. not either/or but both/and/plus, becuase to stand with a foot in both worlds always reveals new worlds again to the mind that can bridge them.

    the enemy is no one mode of thinking but conditioned thinking of any type.

  15. “the enemy is no one mode of thinking but conditioned thinking of any type.”

    Sorry for being a post slut, but it’s exciting to see where this takes us. The statement above is certainly true at a certain stage for someone along their path, and always true for constrained, compelled, or any way forced conditional thinking (the incredible level of “group think” alive today in gov’t and our churches & corporations is probably *the* major objectified hinderence).

    But for conditioned thinking not to have any benefit, eliminates any pedagogical structure. Teaching methods are necessary where learning cause and effect – conditioned responses – is the basis for knowledge. Later you get to throw it all way, and experience it in its shackeless freedom and skeptcial glory.

    So aren’t those small first steps still required?

  16. I always thought more along the lines of it being a non-linear pattern of emotiona/spiritual resonance/excitement that you try to recognize in every day life, and bring the mundane into the mythic/sacred.

    The fact that aligning yourself with this extremely potent perceptive quality is extremely dangerous and often has disasterous consequences makes it seem even more exciting… I don’t know; maybe I’m barking up the wrong tree. I’d like to see what you all think of this.

    One thing about living this way… it’s fun. But it has led me to make some distinctly non-rational assertions of late. Every once in a while my cynical side opens a sleepy eye and says, “what?!” I’m curious to hear what people think is the danger in putting a mythic overlay onto one’s life. There is one, for sure, but I’m not sure if I am ready to articulate it….

  17. Wow Zac, that is too awesome! Hahaha! I was JUST THINKING OF that earlier today. Oh my goodness, how very unusual. And like Whatacharacter says ” My path is, still making sense of it all…ever since I started, which was qUiTe early! It’s a never-ending work in my mind of gathering all the information together to just make SOME sense of it, more than I have already. Every day.

    I was thinking about how when I first started communicating to that spirit, who I thought was Lucifer, and I’m most likely correct, even though I have a hard time believing it. (Fleshly doubt). But they keep telling me more info which backs it up. He was always there since I was a child. Then he made his spectacular appearance when I was 16/17yrs old. He came as a friend. But there was always something about him that bothered me. So I had to keep my distance from him. He’s very slick. Very intelligent. Reads the mind, knows the stuff. So he could talk to me in my head where I didn’t have to waste my breath. But I started talking out loud, and he started showing up in physical reality. Oops, quite intimidating. Had to stop the out loud verbal.
    I kept running from him, though I desired to go to him because he was so fun to talk to. God was always there too. Differently though. In the distance like. He was always honest and true, and I felt so good when He came along. He told me what would happen in my life many years ago, and now the evidence is in…it’s clear. That really IS God who was talking to me. He asked me a few months back, when He came in a terrible darkened-day lightning all around for an extra long period of time, asked me what I want with this one? I was always sorrowing when he was around. And when God came around, it didn’t matter what horribly frightening things happened around me, I was so overwhelmed with Joy and amazement. Pure happiness. That day when He spoke to me, the other spirits shook at my feet. The t.v. flashed, almost turned on, and the bed made a little shiver all under my legs where I sat, like a wave, the bed quivered.

    I wondered what God meant, because as much as they were my ‘friends’, they were my enemies and kept me in a state of unease. Always trying to be helpful, but soon as they gained my trust, then they told lies, so I would be deceived and turned off the path. Today I was thinking of all this, and I finally came to a conclusion. Hahaha. It really is him and God really did talk to me. And it’s like this simple. This is it. Reality. Here I am. In this world in this human form. It’s that deceiving. It’s right in front of all our faces, and yet we find it hard to believe? Believe.

    And Jesus had come to me on April 5th of this year like I’ve never experienced before. And showed me things that always keep coming to mind so that I may harvest more knowledge out of it. He showed me where I stood. And I think He gave this to me as a gift. I was afraid that maybe it was because I had to make a specific choice. But wake up me…I had already made a specific choice. So this image which has been haunting me all of my life, and now Jesus showed it to me very specifically, is that place where I stood. I stand. It was over and in, three different places. On the right there is the territory of light. Joy, etc. On the left the territory of the devils. Reddish, dark, and darker as it goes away from the center. The center is a very thin line, which is like a little stream. I am above and in both seeing the experience of knowledge. Everything is so subtle, so secret/occult, that we must be on alert at all times, watching lest the thief, U know…keeping vigilance…IE, not falling asleep. Hello. What you see is what you get. What you see is not what you get. Complex.

    God is magnificent! And today as I stood there thinking of this what I was shown, I was thinking how it feels like I’ve got one foot on land and one foot in the sea. What a strange thought. Then I remembered there was something spoken in the Revelations about that. Oh yea…I was suppose to go look it up. God speed!

  18. perhaps i ought to have distinguished between conditioned behaviors that are never subject to examination, and ones that are. it’s obviously helpfull to be able to submerge your conscious awareness of how to move your legs, for example. but to have beliefs and attitudes and perceptions that have never surfaced to the point where you can modify, critique or discard them, is a real problem at this stage in our evolution i think.

    the epidemic of irrational thinking is a byprodocut of people assimilating too much information without unpacking what’s inside of it. this leads to ‘low’ mythical thinking which is using symbols as a shorthand for actual experiences, as opposed to ‘high’ mythical thinking which is used to overlay life as it is normally understood with ‘the aspect of eternity’ as it were.

  19. By Golly I’ve GOT IT! This place is a stimulation to the thinking capacity…to alchemize into the Aunty Christ would be the opposite of Uncle Tom! I finally get it! Or is this to be once again alchemically braindamaged?

    I was born in a condition which I hadn’t the condition of my condition to begin with. It surprised me. So I had to learn to live with both my condition that I was a Roman Catholic, and my conditon that I was neither this nor that, but only who I AM. And that is what it is. Who We ARE. Therefore we were brought into this world conditioned to act on the stage by playing this game. See…. and therefore we sleep in this subtly deceptive type of sleep. Because if we were awake, we wouldn’t be able to play out this theatrical scheme of things.

    So much for a chemical alchemy. Just braindamaged, in the extreme.

  20. ‘low’ mythical thinking which is using symbols as a shorthand for actual experiences, as opposed to ‘high’ mythical thinking which is used to overlay life as it is normally understood – Your thinking.

    You’ve just answered our critical question. With all the rush rush hubbub of activity in life propelling the world onward, they don’t have time to adjust their behaviour in this state that they’re in. So you see, that will lead to another problem later on, by the solving of this critical problem right now, through this equation. If all of it is given to them…out of the kindness and generosity of the highers, they will not have absorbed the internal system enough for it to stick. Therefore, a short time of apparent peace, and then they’re off to the races once again, worshipping idols and being idiotic.

  21. I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be rude. But INCorporated is going to speak the truth.

    “Now the great day of the Lord drew nigh and the children of Israel offered their gifts. And Reuben stood over against him saying: It is not lawful for thee to offer thy gifts first,-forasmuch as thou hast gotten no seed in Israel. 8 And Ioacim was sore grieved, and went unto the record of the twelve tribes of the people, saying: I will look upon the record of the twelve tribes of Israel, whether I only have not gotten seed in Israel. And he searched, and found concerning all the righteous that they had raised up seed in Israel. And he remembered the patriarch Abraham, how in the last days God gave him a son, even Isaac. 4 And Ioacim was sore grieved, and showed not himself to his wife, but betook himself into the wilderness, and pitched his tent there, and fasted forty days and forty nights, saying within himself: I will not go down either for meat or for drink until the Lord my God visit me, and my prayer shall be unto me meat and drink.”

    I don’t mean to be a cruel teacher….it’s just that in this day and this eon, I am a ruler…I must PERFORM.

  22. Electrolite (R.E.M.)

    Your eyes are burning holes through me.
    I’m gasoline.
    I’m burnin’ clean.

    Twentieth century go and sleep.
    You’re plasticine.
    That is obscene.
    That is obscene.

    You are the star tonight.
    You shine electric outta sight.
    You light eclipsed the moon tonight.
    Elecrolite. You’re outta sight.

    If I ever want to fly.
    Mulholland Drive.
    I am alive.

    Hollywood is under me.
    I’m Martin Sheen
    I’m Steve McQueen
    I’m Jimmy Dean

    You are the star tonight.
    You shine electric outta sight.
    You light eclipsed the moon tonight.
    You’re outta sight.

    If you want to fly.
    Mulholland Drive.
    Up in the sky.
    Stand on a cliff and look down there.
    Don’t be scared, you are alive.
    You are alive.

    You are the star tonight.
    You shine electric outta sight.
    You light eclipsed the moon tonight.
    You’re outta sight.

    Twentieth century go and sleep.
    Really deep.
    We won’t blink

    You’re eyes are burnin’ holes through me.
    I’m not scared
    I’m outta here.
    I’m not scared.
    I’m outta here.

  23. Wow, talk about a rambling comment thread…

    Look out, i’m about to wade in…

    Zac, two points I want to make:

    1. That is an extremely interesting take on child abuse. The idea that harming children is…metaphorically/mythologically/subconsciously…a revenge against the changing present and (more emphatically) the uncontrollable future is great. I’ve seen the “i was abused and now I’m the abuser…endless cycle…” story so many times that its become banal, cliched commonsense. Your perspective, if I’m seeing it correctly, cracks that story wide open and shows how “commonsense” is just another conditioned response.

    2. I was gonna ask how you intrepet Campbell’s counsel to enmesh the everyday with the mythological, but Jacob beat me to it…and did a far better job of phrasing the question than I would’ve. So as to this low mythic and high mythic…a little more, please. Is magick “low mythic” because it uses symbols (at least at the initial stages), or do you mean the terms in a more general sense? I’ve always used a simple divide of everyday and mythic, just out of lazyness really. I really need to get out Aristotle’s either/or…

    Oh, great post…

    And Inc., a little more centering meditation there, man. Alternatively, lithium CAN be your friend (j/k)…

  24. Oh, and just to add to the rambling…

    Saturn comes back around, to show you everything
    Let’s you choose what you will not see, and then
    Drags you down like a stone or lifts you up again (and)
    Spits you out like a child, light and innocent.
    Saturn comes back around. Lifts you up like a child
    or drags you down like a stone to
    Consume you
    till you choose to let this go.
    Choose to let this go.
    TOOL, The Grudge

    Go buy their new album, its fucking great…


  25. i was just listening to that song yesterday, actually.

    I’ve listened to the new album a few times already and except for a couple tracks, i definitely still like lateralus better.

    and regarding the use of symbols in magick, I’d say it’s quality is related to how much the practicioner understands the symbols as tools and placeholders for experiences, rather than as inviolate aspects of the experience itself. it’s the classic ‘ the magick is in the book’ vs ‘ the book points towards the magick’ confusion.

  26. The image I have when listening to the grudge is of this gigantic, mountain-sized God holding (me) in the palm of His hand, like a damn toy or ragdoll…kinda literal, I know, but thats always the relationship I’ve had with Saturn…He just kicks my ass repeatedly until I learn, and I am a SLOW learner…

    Yea, I’m still on the “TOOL has a new alboum out…fuck’n awesome” high I always have when they drop an album. I just got it yesterday and think its great, but haven’t really sat down and just listened to it yet so we’ll see…but I’m not betting against it…though lateralus is a hard album to beat…then again so was Ænima…yea, yea, I’m a fanboy, fuck off…

    And I was gonna say something witty and insightful about the current power-palyers and the twisted myths they’re manifesting, but but they’re just so…unbelievable…and blatant…that my mouth just kinda hangs open in shock. I mean, these guys could go back and teach the Duc D’Orleans a thing or two about machiavellian depravity…jesus unfuckinbelievable christ…


  27. Kylark,

    “I’m curious to hear what people think is the danger in putting a mythic overlay onto one’s life. There is one, for sure, but I’m not sure if I am ready to articulate it…. ”

    I was thinking about what you asked and, for me, I see two main dangers to living the myth…

    First, is dealing with the totallity of the myth. The stories tie together many, seemingly disparate, elements. While you may invoke Hermes for his ties to magick, what happens when you start getting the impulse to shoplift or steal from those around you. He is also, after all, God of Thieves. Or, as zac pointed out in the post, what if you call up Saturn to deal with obstacles in your life and you start feeling compulsions to “eat” children (I used to think this was a long shot from really happening but after browsing around “rigorous intuition” I’m no longer sure). The various aspects of a particular God-form are there from some reason, and my guess is that those that crafted those myths saw a relationship between the psychological aspects they represent. I am definitely curious to see someone analyze the why of those relationships…actually I bet Jung did, but I’d have to look it up. Either way, you have to be careful for what you ask for and be aware of what you get.

    Second is the danger of becoming locked into the myth. These are “forces” that have been crafted over the many millenia of human history. They aren’t gonna stop just because you ask nicely…just ask Koresh or the Kool-Aid guy (what’s his name again…Jones?) or many other figures that have latched on to the Jesus myth…or more appropriately, the Dying God myth. Actually one of the best studies of this process is in Dune and Dune Messiah. I haven’t read them in a long while, but I remember Herbert playing around nicely with the idea of becoming the myth, being imprisoned by the myth, then trying to escape the myth…

    As a personal experience thats loosely related, A couple of years ago I was playing around with invoking Vishnu, and in the process imagining myself as Vishnu 1. going around doing my own actions and 2. going around and doing what I imagined Vishnu would do. Since he is “married,” this included His having sex with His Wife. This is where I fucked up…not because of being offensive to the God, or tying sex to religion, or any moralistic bullshit…no, the name of His Wife is Laxmi, Goddess of Wealth. Unfortunately, the name of my MOTHER is Lakshmi, another spelling for the Goddess of Wealth. In my own little idiosyncratic idiocy, I started seeing all the girls I was attracted to, or seeing, as goddamn mother figures. This progressed to the point of some disturbing…very disturbing…dreams :0. Thank God for banishing rituals. I repeat, Thank God For Banishing Rituals. Needless to say, I no longer deal with Her Grace except in the form of Ma Laxmi, the Mother Goddess. I guess that might be another point…sometimes the myths interact with your personal reality in some really twisted ways.

    Be Good


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s